Soviet motor vessel Voroshilov torpedoed on 29 March 1942 - are further details known?

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Dan
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Soviet motor vessel Voroshilov torpedoed on 29 March 1942 - are further details known?

Post by Dan » Tue Nov 05, 2019 9:45 pm

Dear all,

Soviet and Russian sources report that the motor vessel Voroshilov was hit by an aerial torpedo at 19:05 (Moscow time) on 29 March 1942, while transporting 2,600 wounded from the Kerch peninsula to the Caucasus. The ship beached herself close to the port of Novorossiysk in order to avoid sinking. Thereafter, the story becomes much less coherent. For example, there is the following account printed in the Ukrainian newspaper 'Evening Odessa' on 20 June 2013:
http://vo.od.ua/rubrics/more/25731.php

That article does not specify how many casualties were suffered as a result of the torpedo hit, containing only the vague phrase, 'loss of life could not be avoided'. The fate of the ship thereafter is also unclear. Let me provide a brief translation here:

"Later the 'Voroshilov' was refloated and towed for repair to Novorossiysk, with the assistance of the ice-breaker 'Toros'

The 'Voroshilov' sank a second time in the Kerch strait. It was raised again and placed in a reinforced concrete floating dock.

While under repair at the Novorossiysk SRZ (ship repair yard) it was caught in an air raid, received additional damage and sank for a third time together with the dock."

I have the following questions, derived from this vague account. Is the number of casualties suffered onboard the 'Voroshilov' on 29 March 1942 known? Are the dates of the two later incidents known? German ground troops occupied the port of Novorossiysk on 7 September 1942, so both incidents would have occurred in the spring or summer of that year.

For those interested in the ship's history before 1942, it was built on Teesside in 1924 as the Tramore and sold to the Soviet Union in 1933, see http://teesbuiltships.co.uk/view.php?a1 ... el=TRAMORE

Regards,

Dan
igorr
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Re: Soviet motor vessel Voroshilov torpedoed on 29 March 1942 - are further details known?

Post by igorr » Wed Nov 06, 2019 3:18 am

VOROSHILOV was towed in Novorossysk 2.4.42. Then ship was damaged in this port 2.7.42 during big german air attack.
3.8.42 VOROSHILOV in convoy leave Novorossiysk for Tuapse. Next day ship headed more to south, to Poti. 19.9.42 tug VEZHILOV bring VOROSHILOV from Poti to Batumi. Obviously ship wasn't repaired that time. 27.12.42 ship returned to Poti, again with help of tugs. Looks like ship was laid up for rest of war and repaired only after its end.
Dan
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Re: Soviet motor vessel Voroshilov torpedoed on 29 March 1942 - are further details known?

Post by Dan » Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:09 pm

Thank you for your reply, Igor. As I suspected, the newspaper article was in error when it suggested that the ship had sunk in the Kerch strait and had then been recovered. Your account of the movements of 'Voroshilov' is very specific. Are you using a source similar to the Tabular Records of Movement compiled by researchers for ships of the Japanese navy? To make it obvious what I am referring to, see the following example, http://www.combinedfleet.com/atago_t.htm

You did not mention any casualty report for the incident on 29 March 1942. Is that information unavailable?

Since the 'Voroshilov' was one of the ships hit during the large Luftwaffe raid on Novorossiysk on 2 July, may I ask whether there is a full modern Russian list of ship losses suffered during this attack? The only summary I have seen comes from the Chronik des Seekrieges. It is somewhat inaccurate, for it fails to mention the involvement of the Ju 88 bomber unit KG 76 and the floating dock:

"Am 2.7. Luftangriff des I./KG.100 (Hptm. Heise) auf Novorossisk. Das Wrack des sowj. Flottillenführers Tashkent wird zerstört, die Zerstörer Bditelny, Transporter Ukraina (4727 BRT) und Proletari (1123 BRT) werden versenkt. Schulkreuzer Komintern, Zerstörer Soobrazitelny, Nezamozhnik, Wachboote Shtorm, Shkval, Unterseeboot L-24 sowie Transporter Voroshilov (3908 BRT) und Kursk (5801 BRT) werden beschädigt."

Regards,

Dan
igorr
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Re: Soviet motor vessel Voroshilov torpedoed on 29 March 1942 - are further details known?

Post by igorr » Thu Nov 07, 2019 4:42 am

I'm use pretty old, ex-secret soviet narrative about war at Black sea, named "Chronicle of war actions". Good simple source, based at documents. Also i have loss-register for Black sea, also made in 1950th by soviet MoD, ex-secret thing too. Alas there i find no casualties, only mention that losses happen.
I don't know any modern and reliable list of losses at Novorossiysk. Newest and solid book by M. Morozov and A. Kuznezov about Black sea have no such details.
https://www.labirint.ru/books/486671/
List of losses on Chronik des Seekrieges is pretty good. Only salvage tug TCHERNOMOR is absent in list of sunken ships. To damaged i can add floating dock for 6000 t.
Dan
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Re: Soviet motor vessel Voroshilov torpedoed on 29 March 1942 - are further details known?

Post by Dan » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:42 am

Igor, thank you for additional comments. Is the chronicle that you use the one which carries the Russian title 'Хроника Великой Отечественной Войны Советского Союза на Черноморском театре'. That is translated into English as 'The Chronicle of the Great Patriotic War of the Soviet Union in the Black Sea theatre'. I understand from citations in modern Russian works that this chronicle was published in six issues, or volumes, between 1945 and 1951. Is it publicly accessible?

It is remarkable that there is no information about personnel losses even in the restricted, 'for official use only' books that you have access to. One is left to speculate that casualties among the wounded may have been significant, given their limited mobility and the heavy damage caused to the 'Voroshilov'.

It is helpful to know that the tug and floating dock were also among the vessels hit in Novorossiysk. It is surprising the full details have not been discussed in print, even 77 years later.

Regards,

Dan
igorr
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Re: Soviet motor vessel Voroshilov torpedoed on 29 March 1942 - are further details known?

Post by igorr » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:08 am

You right about Chronicle. 6 volumes, 1945-51. I don't think it accessible other than in some specialised library or something. Maybe some are in private use, but i don't know such persons.
Question of losses never be of great importance in USSR. Then nobody dig deeply in archives, which now is open. This case just waiting of their researchers.
mjbollinger
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Re: Soviet motor vessel Voroshilov torpedoed on 29 March 1942 - are further details known?

Post by mjbollinger » Sat Nov 09, 2019 2:11 pm

I have scans of the individual pages of this report -- there are hundreds. (It is not a single PDF). Here is the scan for the incident in question:
0170.tif
0170.tif (42.28 KiB) Viewed 1141 times
Sorry -- I've tried pasting the actual image but I can't seem to figure out how to get that to work.

Marty
Dan
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Re: Soviet motor vessel Voroshilov torpedoed on 29 March 1942 - are further details known?

Post by Dan » Sun Nov 10, 2019 7:51 pm

Marty,

It is a big surprise, and a very positive one, that you have this report! Thank you for being willing to share the information that you have. Unfortunately, I cannot view the scanned image which appears to be attached to your message. I believe I cannot view any attachment on this forum right now, perhaps there is a problem with my browser settings. I have sent you a private message.

Regards,

Dan
mjbollinger
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Re: Soviet motor vessel Voroshilov torpedoed on 29 March 1942 - are further details known?

Post by mjbollinger » Sun Nov 10, 2019 10:59 pm

Looks like the image is visible now.

I have assembled the individual scans into PDF files by theater (Black Sea, Northern, Baltic), separated into ships lost and ships damaged for each. If people want copies of the files (they are pretty big -- 700 pages total) send me a PM with your email address and the files you would like to receive..

Marty
Siri
Site Admin
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Re: Soviet motor vessel Voroshilov torpedoed on 29 March 1942 - are further details known?

Post by Siri » Mon Nov 11, 2019 1:43 pm

Marty, do you remember a long time ago, we discussed whether the results of all your research could be hosted here at warsailors? Since I’m not technologically advanced enough to answer your question, I asked my son about it, and he said that it could absolutely be done. But when I contacted you again to tell you, I never heard back from you, so I thought perhaps you had arranged for another method. This message is simply to let you know that I didn’t forget about the whole thing at the time, I did try :)

I do hope you came up with a way to share all your hard work with others, somehow, in addition to what’s already in your books!
Siri, webmistress of warsailors
mjbollinger
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Re: Soviet motor vessel Voroshilov torpedoed on 29 March 1942 - are further details known?

Post by mjbollinger » Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:28 am

Hi Siri,

Thanks for the note. Not sure what happened in the earlier communication. I'd be happy to post some of the databases I created as well as scans I have of some (non-copyrighted) material such as the VMF casualty reports. Let's figure out how to do this.

Marty
Siri
Site Admin
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Re: Soviet motor vessel Voroshilov torpedoed on 29 March 1942 - are further details known?

Post by Siri » Wed Nov 13, 2019 12:30 pm

I am so dreadfully sorry, Marty, I think we may have lost that window of opportunity! Unless, would you be willing to wait until this summer? I have no idea how to do it, and would need help from my son, who at this time of year is an extremely busy professor in st Andrew, with a long commute to Edinburgh, very early mornings and late nights. How about I contact you in a few months? I’d hate to think of all that valuable information just sitting on your computer, when you’re so willing to share it with those who would benefit from it.
Siri, webmistress of warsailors
mjbollinger
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Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:57 pm

Re: Soviet motor vessel Voroshilov torpedoed on 29 March 1942 - are further details known?

Post by mjbollinger » Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:42 pm

That's fine, Siri. No hurry on my part. Thanks.

Marty
maurice
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Re: Soviet motor vessel Voroshilov torpedoed on 29 March 1942 - are further details known?

Post by maurice » Thu Nov 14, 2019 1:21 pm

Hello Marty,

Do you also have any information about Russian ships from the pre-Soviet era, especially those from the period 1914-18 ?

Thank you in advance

Maurice
mjbollinger
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Re: Soviet motor vessel Voroshilov torpedoed on 29 March 1942 - are further details known?

Post by mjbollinger » Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:42 pm

Maurice,

I tried to track the movements of all Russian ships (over 900GRT) from 1917 forward, especially their status during the turmoil of the 1917-1922 period. I don't have them tracked year by year before 1917 however.

Marty
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