Records on ex german landing craft in allied navies

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Darius
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:50 pm

Records on ex german landing craft in allied navies

Post by Darius » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:22 pm

Hello,

so let´s get busy...

Are there any records or documents in us american, british, french, italian or russian archives or institutes tending ex german landing craft of WW2 (i.e. Siebelfähren, Marinefährprähme, MAL, ....) in use of those countries navies? Some data is in The National Archives in GB, but there have to be more, f.e. data on testing or beeing used for tests?

Thank you for any hint in this subject.

Regardsa

Darius
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crolick
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Re: Records on ex german landing craft in allied navies

Post by crolick » Thu Jul 11, 2019 8:23 pm

Hi Darius,

Polish Navy used after WW2 the following vessels:
- 2 PiLB 41
- 4 Sturmboot42
- 5 MFP D (all taken in the Glogau Werft): F 1081-F 1085
- 1 MFP DM (all taken in the Glogau Werft): F 1066
- 1 Italian MZ (which I'm unable to track back the number either the way it get to the Baltic Sea)


Hope that helps!
Andrzej
ORP Marszałek Piłsudski
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Motto okrętu: Balansujcie dopóki się da, a gdy się już nie da - podpalcie świat!
Darius
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jul 08, 2019 7:50 pm

Re: Records on ex german landing craft in allied navies

Post by Darius » Fri Jul 12, 2019 8:20 pm

Czesc Andrzej,

gdzei mozna znalezc jakies dokumenty dotyczace tych jednostek?

Hello Andrzej,

where you can find some documents regarding this vessels?

Regards

Darius
TOM
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:06 am

Re: Records on ex german landing craft in allied navies

Post by TOM » Thu Jul 18, 2019 10:45 am

Following Ergänzungsliste Dr. Meyer (Arbeitskreis Gröner) the
MFP 1081-1085 got pendant numbers BDD-3, -5, -7, -8, -9, MFP 1066 the number BDD-6
Following Ivan Gogin, the (unknown, ex-Italian) MZ got pendant number BDD-4 in 1953, stricken 1962
-> http://www.navypedia.org/ships/poland/pl_ls_bdd4.htm
Polish Service and demissioning of the other MFPs as well by Ivan Gogin:
-> http://www.navypedia.org/ships/poland/pl_ls.htm
Best regards,
Thomas
TOM
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Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:06 am

Re: Records on ex german landing craft in allied navies

Post by TOM » Fri Jul 19, 2019 6:22 pm

Jugoslavian Navy:

D-206 ex MZ 713 from 1945 to 1962, stricken in 1979
D-219 ex MZ 717 from 1945 to 1962, stricken in 1979

D-203 ex MFP 1168 from 1945 to 1963, stricken in 1985
D-204 ex MFP 1169 from 1945 to 1963, stricken in 1985
D- . . ex MFP 1193 from 1945 to 1963, stricken in 1985
D-212 ex MFP 932 :?:
D- ... ex MFP 971 :?:

June 1975 Siebel Ferry 229 as ATM 229 with Yugosl. Navy
Did the Yugoslavian Navy ever recover MFPs or SFs from the Danube ?

Best regards, Thomas
TOM
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Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:06 am

Re: Records on ex german landing craft in allied navies

Post by TOM » Tue Jul 23, 2019 10:57 am

The Soviet Navy took over more than 120 MFP and AF in her three various fleets.
Let's discuss some difficult cases from the German HMA-database
https://www.historisches-marinearchiv.d ... eibung.php

Problematic is F 405, believed to become BDB-10
- 26.10.1944 F 405 und F 317 werden z.Zt. in Tromsö entladen.[3] Decyphered ULTRA signal
- 01.02.1945 Bei der 9. L-Flottille (Narvik) laut Kriegsgliederung SKL/A2 Blatt 183 [4]
- 11.05.1945 Vor Kronsgaard nach Minendetonation gestrandet und gesunken.[Dokument in HMA-Datenbank]
- 04.04.1946 Bergungsversuch vor Kronsgaard [Dokument in HMA-Datenbank]
Contradictum:
- 09.09.1944 sowj. Beute
- 14.11.1944 Handelsflotte
- 27.03.1945 Schwarzmeerflotte
- 09.04.1945 BDB-10 Schwarzmeerflotte
- 26.07.1945 Arbeitsleichter Schwarzmeerflotte [Ergänzungsliste Dr. Meyer]

Also suspect is F 495, believed to become BDB-11
- 12.07.1943 Küstenschutzflottille Attika [3] KTB der Ks-Flottille Attika
- 13.09.1943 beim Anlaufen von Argostolion (Kephalonia) von ital. Artillerie beschossen und gekentert [3]
Contradictum:
- 00.09.1944 In Varna sowjetische Beute [9]
- 14.11.1944 gem. Befehl 0933 an die sowj. Handelsflotte übergeben [9] Miroslav Morozov
- 00.00.1945 BDB-11 Schwarzmeerflotte [10] Ivan Gogin: navypedia

MFP F 905 as well as MFP F 445 would match far more better.
Is it possible that the Soviets confounded 4 and 9 ?
Other possibility: "F 405" was in reality Romanian landing vessel PTA 405, former German identity not cleared up.

Are there any more hints to solve our problems ?
With best regards, Tom
TOM
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Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:06 am

Re: Records on ex german landing craft in allied navies

Post by TOM » Sat Jul 27, 2019 10:24 am

Romanian Navy

Following Ivan Gogin the Romanian Navy got 3 MFP from Germany in late 1943
http://www.navypedia.org/ships/romania/ro_of_pta404.htm

F 126 A became PTA-404 and in 1944 Soviet BDB-14
F 127 A became PTA-405 and in 1944 Soviet BDB-15
F 143 A became PTA-406 and in 1944 Soviet BDB-16

Gröner (Die deutschen Kriegsschiffe) has another Version: BDB 14 to 16 are said to have been from the pool of MFP 902-906, which had been handed out to Bulgaria in August 1944.

If Gröner is right, so what happened to the other two vessels from MFP 902-906 ?
And what vessels had been PTA 401 to 403 ?
Last edited by TOM on Tue Jul 30, 2019 3:13 pm, edited 2 times in total.
TOM
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Joined: Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:06 am

Re: Records on ex german landing craft in allied navies

Post by TOM » Tue Jul 30, 2019 2:28 pm

ROMANIAN NAVY

PTA = Pontoane de transport armate
Marian Mosneagu: Politica navala postbelica a Romaniei (1944-1958) as well as
http://www.geocities.ws/dangrecu/VaseArm.html#PTA do not count more than 3 PTA
These should have been PTA 404, 405, 406.

MFP-Database names three other MFP handed over to Romania in 1943:
F 127 on 20. Oct. 1943
F 314 on 16. Dec. 1943
F 322 on 16. Dec. 1943

https://www.forum-marinearchiv.de/smf/i ... ic=12837.0
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